Curse

Inde · Jul 10, 2008, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Hmm, interesting. Just found this interview with Jeff Strain where they say:

Quote:

Graphics - We will use the Guild Wars engine as a foundation for the Guild Wars 2 engine, but we will be rewriting and upgrading substantial portions of the code to provide a visual experience that players will expect in a sequel to Guild Wars.
http://www.pcpowerplay.com.au/games/...t/view/789/54/

So it's not a completely new engine. A major rewrite yes. Wiki article is a tiny bit misleading.

DarkNecrid · Jul 10, 2008, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Hmm, interesting. Just found this interview with Jeff Strain where they say:

Yes, I believe they are keeping the base since the base largely works, and upgrading the graphics sections of it if nothing else. Adding a proper z-axis, fixing rubberbanding, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

GW runs excellently & code is less of an issue than the thousands of relays, hubs & networks that the signal most travel through.

Rubberbanding is result of an issue that the internet will always have. Anet can't stop it any more than the weatherman can change the weather.

Actually, rubberbanding in most cases is not a network error or a fault in the network code at all, but rather an error in how the engine works. You can force yourself to rubberband easily, because the engine has faults. Yes, you can rubberband from lag, but I'd say in probably 90% of the cases you hear people complaining, it is from the errors in the game engine.

Again, examples:
-Use Signet of Mystic Speed while moving.
-run into 1-2 enemies, and stuff. Just move, and have them move. You'll rubberband an assload due to how the engine handles this.

The first example happens because for some stupid reason the aftercast (which forces you to pause) only happens on the client side, so according to the server you are moving, but on your screen you aren't. This is what causes rubberbanding. This happens on quite a few other skills too, actually.

The second example happens because sometimes the engine will (on server side) "see" you as moving, but on your side you aren't because you're running into a guy. If you do this into a bunch of guys you can psuedo-teleport if you don't wind up dying because the server thinks it is correct, even though technically you shouldn't be able to move.

Darksun · Jul 10, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Again, examples:
-Use Signet of Mystic Speed while moving.
-run into 1-2 enemies, and stuff. Just move, and have them move. You'll rubberband an assload due to how the engine handles this.

I don't have these issues. It's not the engine, my connection is probably just better.

DarkNecrid · Jul 10, 2008, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

I don't have these issues. It's not the engine, my connection is probably just better.

Then you either a) did them wrong or b) are lying.

Especially the first one.

It is impossible to not have the first one happen...because it isn't a network issue. The server has code saying SoMS doesn't have an aftercast, the client says it does. They conflict. The only way around this is to do a quick strafe just before activation, but if you walk straight, use SoMS, and keep holding forward, you will rubberband.

You can't really argue any of this because it is proven from the client/server infrastructure itself man. Ever since people figured all that stuff out, they figured out how rubberbanding and all that occurs. Bodyblocking or being even slightly bodyblocked is the biggest contributor to rubberbanding, but there are skill issues as well. Your internet connection means nothing here. You could be sitting right in the data center on fiber wire and still have these issues.

EDIT:
The SoMS thing is even confirmed on official wiki if you don't believe me.

aaje vhanli · Jul 10, 2008, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by the bourne hells

Where does it stated that GW2 is only WASD walking?

This has already been addressed consistently many times.

Quote:

The control system is going to be significantly changed (in particular mouse movement in the form "click to move" will be removed from the game), however target locking will still function. Guild Wars 2 will introduce a Z-axis to the game which will allow characters to jump over obstacles. Actions which have characters interacting with the environment, such as sliding and swimming will also be introduced.

Of course, this doesn't say there will only be WASD walking... aNet could offer us unique alternative options.

Darksun · Jul 10, 2008, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Then you either a) did them wrong or b) are lying.

Especially the first one.

It is impossible to not have the first one happen...because it isn't a network issue. The server has code saying SoMS doesn't have an aftercast, the client says it does. They conflict. The only way around this is to do a quick strafe just before activation, but if you walk straight, use SoMS, and keep holding forward, you will rubberband.

You can't really argue any of this because it is proven from the client/server infrastructure itself man. Ever since people figured all that stuff out, they figured out how rubberbanding and all that occurs. Bodyblocking or being even slightly bodyblocked is the biggest contributor to rubberbanding, but there are skill issues as well. Your internet connection means nothing here. You could be sitting right in the data center on fiber wire and still have these issues.

EDIT:
The SoMS thing is even confirmed on official wiki if you don't believe me.

I have not had significant rubberbanding from body blocking(as a matter of fact it almost always perfectly on point), or SoMS(though I hardly use it). You must have a different definition of rubberbanding. I am talking about moving, attacking, casting then snapping back something like 100 (in game) yards and not having those event even happen, or repeatedly getting snapped back to a location regardless of the action. Not snapping back 5 ft because of 1 skill in a specific situation. If that the big issue that ANET must attend to, then by all means fix it.

DarkNecrid · Jul 10, 2008, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

I have not had significant rubberbanding from body blocking, or SoMS. You must have a different definition of rubberbanding. I am talking about moving, attacking, casting then snapping back something like 100 (in game) yards and not having those event even happen, or repeatedly getting snapped back to a location regardless of the action. Not snapping back 5 ft because of 1 skill in a specific situation. If that the big issue that ANET must attend to, then by all means fix it.

Rubberbanding in general is the snapping back. It doesn't matter how far it is, it is by definition the server and client being out of synch and the server updating your client to where it thinks you are.

They can't really fix it. They can fix SoMS obviously that's just an error on the client side of things (imo. It's a signet, sooo), but bodyblocking and such are so hard grained into the engine code that they would have to completely rewrite it to remove rubberbanding from it and that just isn't going to happen.

Darksun · Jul 10, 2008, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Rubberbanding in general is the snapping back. It doesn't matter how far it is, it is by definition the server and client being out of synch and the server updating your client to where it thinks you are.

They can't really fix it. They can fix SoMS obviously that's just an error on the client side of things (imo. It's a signet, sooo), but bodyblocking and such are so hard grained into the engine code that they would have to completely rewrite it to remove rubberbanding from it and that just isn't going to happen.

As long as the information needs to get from 1 place to another (especially over distance), you cannot have perfect control over rubberbanding. Like I said, there is more contributing to rubberbanding in the trip over than the code. Rewriting the code is no guarantee it can be fixed, or even open the possibility that is can be fixed. Until we create subspace channels there has to be a point at which users of the software accept this or they will forever had unrealistic expectations. Even telephones & multi-million dollar media broadcasts have lag over distance, there is only so much code will make up for that. The "look, body blocking in an MMO isn't perfect, when are they gonna rewrite the game?!" mentality is a blueprint for perpetual disappointment.

DarkNecrid · Jul 10, 2008, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

As long as the information needs to get from 1 place to another (especially over distance), you cannot have perfect control over rubberbanding. Like I said, there is more contributing to rubberbanding in the trip over than the code. Rewriting the code is no guarantee it can be fixed, or even open the possibility that is can be fixed. Until we create subspace channels there has to be a point at which users of the software accept this or they will forever had unrealistic expectations. Even telephones & multi-million dollar media broadcasts have lag over distance, there is only so much code will make up for that. The "look, body blocking in an MMO isn't perfect, when are they gonna rewrite the game?!" mentality is a blueprint for perpetual disappointment.

It isn't network code at all tho >.<

It isn't the information transfer rate either. The server does repeated checks with the client to make sure they are in synch, and it has to go through a series of checks to make sure that they are out of synch, which is possibly right (though it seems server takes precedence obviously), etc. This is minor stuff that isn't taxing at all on network connections and in these few cases you'd be put in synch roughly the same time as everyone else even if everyone else was lagging a bit more than you, on 56k, etc. The engine itself handles these few situations poorly, and is poorly written.

Darksun · Jul 10, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

It isn't network code >.<

It isn't the information either. The server does repeated checks with the client to make sure they are in synch, and it has to go through a series of checks to make sure that they are out of synch, which is possibly right (though it seems server takes precedence obviously), etc. This is minor stuff that isn't taxing at all on network connections and in these few cases you'd be put in synch roughly the same time as everyone else even if everyone else was lagging a bit more than you, on 56k, etc. The engine itself handles these few situations poorly, and is poorly written.

When did I say it was network code? Your only looking at "these few situations" & I'm looking at rubberbanding as a whole (which is what people have to deal with & what they experience) If they perfectly fixed what you call poorly written client code, people would hardly notice because the majority of the rubberbanding that people have to deal with isn't the client stuff. Then we'd be back in this forum with someone asking ANET to fix the rubberbanding.

DarkNecrid · Jul 10, 2008, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

When did I say it was network code? Your only looking at "these few situations" & I'm looking at rubberbanding as a whole (which is what people have to deal with & what they experience) If they perfectly fixed what you call poorly written client code, people would hardly notice because the majority of the rubberbanding that people have to deal with isn't the client stuff. Then we'd be back in this forum with someone asking ANET to fix the rubberbanding.

A lot of rubber banding problems are issues with the engine and I do not doubt this. All it takes is the slightest missynch between client and server and you will get boned. I'm not saying lag stuff doesn't happen (it does, I know it does.) but there is a lot (...a lot.) of engine problems with it.

imnotyourmother · Jul 10, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

so does this mean that I should be getting myself one of those fancy pants controllers for my computer. I really like clicking like mad and having the warnign pop up on my screen about clicking like mad when my toon just stands there and does not move.

Geeesh. I am not kidding either. There are lots of times that I click on a baddie to attack it and I just stand there getting the crud beat out of me..

DarkNecrid · Jul 10, 2008, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Controllers have rubber banding too.

Moving towards monsters that are blocking you sux.

i hope they fix all these holes in gw2 (and they will d^^)